Governance Office Hours Meeting Minutes

I just realized I don’t think users have bios on here…however I added “bot” to the “title” of the user, as well as to the name of the user. Does that work?

Somewhere in the profile you can put a sentence like the one that says that you work at UC Berkeley. That is what I was thinking of with “bio”.

Hmmm now I just have to remember how to configure this haha

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Hey all - I’m strapped for time so won’t be able to make the governance meeting today - I spent some time yesterday giving my own thoughts to Governance Questions 3: Office Holders and, and I’ll loop in asynchronously this week as well

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Meeting Minutes – November 19, 2019

The weekly hourly office hours call is open to the community members who care about governance issues. The call is held 9-10AM PST on Tuesdays.

  • Attendees

    • Fernando
    • Tim G.
    • Darian
  • Most of the meeting was continuing on debrief from expert interview led by Tim George.

    • Musing on leadership: Leadership is a commodity that’s rarer than we want it to be.

      • Does it make sense for each steering council member to have a ‘deputy’ who’s being trained by the steering council member to be groomed as a future member?

        • Or have some ‘voting members’ and ‘non-voting members’ of the SC and require a certain amount of time as a non-voting member on the council.
  • What is the time commitment for a member of Jupyter leadership?

    • Regular (weekly?) meetings

    • Speaking/travel obligations

  • Discussion on volunteer-selection working to only allow people who have financial stability in leadership.

    • How can we develop leadership within individuals throughout many levels of the project?

    • We have an existing notion of “sub-projects” and “Committees”, we can encode these values so that people in positions can show their employers what impact they are having within the Jupyter Ecosystem, giving some value to individuals that work on Jupyter.

  • One potential way of populating the leadership and mentorship pipeline is to hire people from the open-source adjacent consulting firms in our community for x number of hours in y months to mentor new folks who are coming up in the community. So the Outreachy model plus a way to fund the mentors who would shepherd the new entrants to our community.

For mentorship, sure.

For leadership, I think this is unnecessary. Farming out leadership is unwise. Hiring an Executive Director would be better and having an unpaid board of approx 9 to 11 would be more likely to reflect the interests of the many different stakeholders.


I agree - I’d be a much bigger fan of finding paid positions (maybe part-time?) for leadership-style roles within the Jupyter community, rather than hiring consultant-style people outside the community. One of the challenges of doing “leadership things” is that they are often more invisible than doing technical work, and might be harder for individuals in companies, universities, etc to demonstrate their value. Perhaps compensating folks with money or a title can help offset this.

I wrote that note, but I think I wrote it distractedly. The idea was to populate the mentorship pipeline, because we currently occasionally find funds to pay for incoming interns but have a hard time filling mentorship roles to guide them and rely on volunteer mentorship. The word “leadership” in that point is a little misleading; it was not meant to indicate our project leadership roles ought to be filled in this way.


Meeting Minutes – November 26, 2019

The weekly hourly office hours call is open to the community members who care about governance issues. The call is held 9-10AM PST on Tuesdays.

  • Attendees
    • Tim G.
    • Fernando,
    • Darian
    • Sylvain
    • Chris H.
  • Continued with expert interview summarization and discussion from Tim G.
    • PR (public relations) as an accountability mechanism when faced with organizations that have disproportionate resources.
    • Explicit mechanisms for engagement of entities with large resources are important, to avoid the (even well-intentioned) “overrun by resource overload” problem.
    • Node: “small core, vibrant ecosystem”. Keep the core, non-negotiable ideas as small as possible and then let a more diverse ecosystem evolve around that.
    • In the Rust community, decisions aren’t necessarily made by consensus, but by a process that seeks consensus. This acknowledges that consensus isn’t always possible, but the process helps maintain a sense of community ownership even absent full consensus.
    • How do other organizations handle the problem of folks in the governance bodies being too busy/swamped/disengaged and having discussions and votes “fizzle out” due to lack of engagement.
    • The main job of a top-level steering body in large projects is to ensure the whole project (whatever its hierarchical management structure is) remains a coherent whole, and that all semi-independent sub-entities are working towards a common good/vision.
  • Discussed JupyterLab’s use of the debug adapter protocol as an example of our challenging boundaries of software engineering and the definition of our scope (

Thanks Darian. Would you be able to expand on why the last bullet point is challenging?

Hi Carol!

The challenges in working on debugging that were relevant to last week’s conversation had to do with the differences between example implementation and how many things become de facto stakes in the ground. Here are the aspects of the conversation that I recall:

  • The group of stakeholders who are interested in this problem is very broad but diffuse. The issue is not a purely software engineering one because it’s not simply implementing some functionality, it is also a reference implementation and reaches across multiple sub-projects.

  • The solutions we settled on came from independent implementations that relied on prior art / defined protocols, (i.e. the debug adapter protocol defined by Microsoft and used in VS Code, the use of the control channel in the Jupyter messaging spec, provisional API updates in JupyterLab core as proof-of-concept before migrating down to lower levels of the Jupyter stack).

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Meeting Minutes – December 4, 2019

There will not be any governance meetings for the rest of 2019.

  • Attendees

    • Fernando
    • Tim G.
    • Darian
    • Luciano
    • Zach
  • Next steps?

    • Fernando: AGU next week, then planning to sync with Brian to create first draft of proposal based on all currently accrued materials and ideas. To put out to the public for discussion and iteration after the holiday break.

    • Does it make sense for each steering council member to have a ‘deputy’ who’s being trained by the steering council member to be groomed as a future member?

    • Darian: let’s slightly formalize the next steps. Identify these to the SC and verbatim to Discourse, to clarify the following part of the process.

    • Darian and others willing to help out even with specific writing prompts, sections, etc.

  • Dangling bits?

    • Critical for the community and the SC to feel that the time spent in 2019 resulted in an outcome in 2019.
  • Describe to the community a summary of the activity so far and provide evidence of the work done so far.

  • Idea: timeline for releasing draft (~ mid-Jan 2020) plus vote; A proposal, with a period to discuss, that, if a very active discussion is going on, we can extend once before the final vote.

  • Emphasize the importance of open governance moving forward for industry stakeholders.

I am very excited to read and think about the draft!


Meeting Minutes – January 7, 2020

The weekly hourly office hours call is open to the community members who care about governance issues. The call is held 9-10AM PST on Tuesdays.

Jan 07, 2020

  • Attendees
    • Brian
    • Zach,
    • Luciano
    • Tim G.
    • Darian
  • Review notes:
    • We have completed 4 expert interviews.
    • We posted notes on the core governance questions to the discourse, to prompt discussion.
    • The research phase is more-or-less complete, more research will be done only on an as needed basis.
    • Fernando and Brian will send an email to the Steering Council notifying them that the research phase is completed and provide an outline of the next steps and schedule.
    • Focus will shift to Brian and Fernando writing draft of a new governance document, with a clear review and feedback process.

Today’s call will be from 10-11AM PST. Sorry for the late notice!

The weekly hourly office hours call is open to the community members who care about governance issues. The call is held 9-10AM PST on Tuesdays.

Meeting Minutes – January 14, 2020

  • Attendees
    • Darian
    • Luciano
    • Fernando
    • Tim G.
    • Jason
    • Wolf
    • David
    • Brian
    • Zach
    • Chris H.
  • Update from Brian/Fernando on current state of drafting
    • Grouped governance questions into two sections
      • Questions with Jupyter specific answers
        • Intentional, by-design, multi-stakeholder nature of project
      • Questions with more generic answers
    • Ideas for governing bodies:
      • “Organizational” Body
        • Members would be individuals who represent institutions: universities, companies, etc.
        • Each organization would have a single seat.
        • Give a % quota for ‘community members’ to ensure representation of the long tail of open source volunteers.
        • Encode diversity by asking the companies to help fund and organize internships and mentorships focused on diversity.
      • Executive Body
        • On this body, an individual’s organization is meaningless.
        • We want individuals on this body to be people who have trust, recognition, and are deeply involved in doing the work of the project.
        • Equal representation from sub-projects.
          • Need to formalize what is a sub-project, but would include non-code focused groups.
          • Individuals need to understand that members of the sub-project don’t get any special status within their sub-project
        • Note on existing Steering Council: doesn’t address the involvement or lack thereof of sitting members.
      • Distinguished contributors body
        • Recognition only.
    • Challenges and questions:
      • How do we help the different bodies (org, executive, subprojects) work effectively with realistic membership sizes?
      • How do we ensure the model is not overly complex?
      • What decisions would these bodies each make?

A clarification question on the three organisational bodies: should I read it as “one of these three” or “all three” as the proposed idea?

The current state of Brian and Fernando’s thinking is that the project’s governance would be composed of all three of the bodies.

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Thanks Darian for the update. A few additional questions or clarifications on understanding for the three governance bodies:

  1. Which body - “Organizational” or “Executive” - would have financial responsibility for the Project Jupyter project? One or both?

  2. “Organizational” - Is it one member per institution/company? Or do subsidiaries of a company get a seat? For example, Microsoft owns GitHub and LinkedIn. Quansight has Labs, Open Teams, etc. Would these have a member per top level entity or by sub-org?

  3. “Organizational” - Is there a thinking about the % number for community quota? 30%? Many of us have multiple roles: corporate and community. Which one is used to determine membership?

  4. “Organizational” - Diversity - Great start to have companies fund additional diversity efforts. In terms of governance and representation in decision making/direction, will there be a quota for certain axes of diversity? For example, 25% or greater number of members should reflect gender diversity goals (25% representation comes from the non-dominant group). Is the commitment to diversity aspirational or is there a specific measurable target?

  5. “Executive” - If “Organizational” and “Executive” groups have different standpoints on an issue, which one has priority?

  6. “Executive” - Will this governance group, also have a specific goal/metric/commitment to diversity within its members? While there are many axes of diversity, it is known that non-dominant gender groups are underrepresented. Will there be a guarantee to commit to a specific minimum acceptable diversity?

Very cool to see this moving forward.



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Hi, Carol, thank you for the thoughtful questions. We are still exploring things at a relatively high level, so we haven’t gotten too deep into the details. But your questions are spot on and going to be important for us to consider. Some initial thoughts organized by your numbered questions…

  1. Not sure. We don’t want the “Organizational” body to be purely advisory, but we want to continue Jupyter’s tradition of putting important decisions in the hand of the people doing the work of the project (who would populate the “Executive” body).

  2. This is a really good question and corporate legal and organizational structures are flexible enough that we may have to consider this on a 1-1 basis. But the goal of the “Organiztional” body is to have a place where organizations with less resources (universities) are peers with those with more (large companies), so it may not make sense to allow corporate subsidiaries to have seats.

  3. I think we mentions numbers such as 25%, 1/3, etc. In terms of who gets community versus organizational seats, my initial thought is that anyone whose employer doesn’t have a seat would be eligible for a community seat.

  4. We have been talking about diversity but hadn’t talked about this aspect specifically. I think it is a good idea to have diversity goals for the “Organizational” body seat, and for the mentors.

  5. There are different models of this we are exploring. One is to make the “Organizational” body more advisory - but our experience of advisory boards is that they aren’t very useful. Another would be to partition decisions between the two (each makes decisions, but not the same ones). A third would be that the both participate on the same decisions, with some resolution approach. I think the underlying principle are thinking about those is balancing power through mechanisms.

  6. We talked about the diversity of the “Executive” body briefly. Because the goal is for it to be representative, it will reflect (at least in aggregate) the population of the subprojects that elect representatives. In this model the primary place that diversity “happens” will be in the work of the subprojects the each individually elect a representative. This was precisely why we wanted the “Organizational” body to fund and help staff diversity mentorships and internship, as that is a meaningful way to impact the diversity of the subprojects.